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http://www.dailymail...-nightclub.html
An Islamic court in Malaysia has sentenced a Muslim woman to be flogged for having a beer in a nightclub, a court official said today.
It is rare for a woman in Malaysia to be sentenced to caning - a punishment usually reserved for men.
Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was sentenced yesterday to six lashes and a fine of 5,000 ringgit ($1,400) for consuming alcohol.....
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SOME COMMENTS are quite interesting to read....
They should start giving this treatment here to the binge drinkers. This country is getting out of hand especially where drinking is concerned. I was born and lived abroad for a long time where anybody can buy beer from a machine at many of the stations, but you do not see people staggering and vomiting and causing problems in the street. .....
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When in rome - An adult fully aware of their choices so why should we be bothered. Some of their punishments could be useful in the UK at the moment and I am not talking Sharia courts or law.
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Some British drunken teenagers could do with some of that.
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Just remember: They want to bring Sharia law into the UK.
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And I think to myself...... what a wonderful world"
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...I feel sorry for her but I don't care. It is not my fault she lives in such a draconian society. I have enough to worry about with elements in the UK who wish to impose such a way of life in the UK.
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I suppose she will now seek asylum here to escape her punishment.
Muslim woman in Malaysia to be flogged for drinking beer Islamic court sentences woman to be flogged for drinking beer
MultiQuote
#2
Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:53 AM
Implementation of Islamic law in Malaysia varies radically from state to state, and as stated in this article it varies between courts and judges. Pahang is, or at least was when I lived there, fairly moderate. Interesting that the Daily Mail uses a picture of a woman dressed in a black chador, it's a library picture and not of the lady in question, it's not very common to see the chador in Malaysia, most woman wear a hijab or simple tundung, and in colourful fabrics not black.
#5
Posted 22 July 2009 - 06:41 PM
BlahBlahBlah, on 22 July 2009 - 05:56 PM, said:
i thought Malaysia was supposed to be a secular nation.
#6
Posted 22 July 2009 - 06:55 PM
It's actually a talking point between our Indonesian and Malaysian staff that, whereas the Indonesian ID card does not state your religion, the Malaysian ID card does. So in Indonesia it's not immediately clear to a policeman if your breaking the rules or not, in Malaysia Muslims have no such leeway.
#7
Posted 22 July 2009 - 10:20 PM
TizMe, on 22 July 2009 - 08:41 PM, said:
Freedom of religion is enshrined in the Malaysian constitution, but if you are a Muslim, then you are expected to act like a Muslim and be punished as a Muslim when you stray..
I remember seeing signs tacked on to trees in the parks in Taiping saying that khalwat (sin of proximity) was punishable by large fines and/or strokes of the cane, and this was probably directed just at Muslims.
Captain Chaos, on 22 July 2009 - 08:39 PM, said:
Heard several comments here that she is actually a Singaporean citizen (I have not substantiated these) - if so there may be a bit of the old Singapore - Malaysia sibling rivalry at work in the severity of her sentence...
A bit bloody nasty if this proves to be the case.
yohan, on 22 July 2009 - 02:02 AM, said:
http://www.dailymail...-nightclub.html
SOME COMMENTS are quite interesting to read....
They should start giving this treatment here to the binge drinkers. This country is getting out of hand especially where drinking is concerned. I was born and lived abroad for a long time where anybody can buy beer from a machine at many of the stations, but you do not see people staggering and vomiting and causing problems in the street. .....
SOME COMMENTS are quite interesting to read....
They should start giving this treatment here to the binge drinkers. This country is getting out of hand especially where drinking is concerned. I was born and lived abroad for a long time where anybody can buy beer from a machine at many of the stations, but you do not see people staggering and vomiting and causing problems in the street. .....
But would giving someone, or even several of them, a damned good flogging convince the rest that it is in their best interest to behave themselves? I seriously doubt it. Western society is going to hell on a skateboard. If you see some old bloke building a bloody big boat, ask if you can join the crew!
This post has been edited by Uncle Gweilo: 22 July 2009 - 10:21 PM
#8
Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:28 PM
Captain Chaos, on 22 July 2009 - 08:39 PM, said:
Heard several comments here that she is actually a Singaporean ciizen (I have not substantiated these) - if so there may be a bit of the old Singapore - Malaysia sibling rivalry at work in the severity of her sentence...
Looks as though she is a Malaysian married to a Singaporean national and has lived there for 15 years: http://www.thewest.c...ontentID=158128
And this: http://news.smh.com....90726-dxac.html
Quote
In the civil courts, where caning is a common penalty for serious crimes including rape, it is carried out with a long, thick length of rattan which causes intense pain, breaks open the skin and leaves lasting scars.
However, the cane to be used on Kartika will reportedly be less than four feet (1.2 metres) long and just over a centimetre thick, and the blow is not administered on the bare skin.
The person wielding the cane is banned from lifting it above their head, so the force of the blow is not as hard.
However, the cane to be used on Kartika will reportedly be less than four feet (1.2 metres) long and just over a centimetre thick, and the blow is not administered on the bare skin.
The person wielding the cane is banned from lifting it above their head, so the force of the blow is not as hard.
This post has been edited by Uncle Gweilo: 27 July 2009 - 03:36 PM
#9
Posted 27 July 2009 - 03:46 PM
http://www.thewest.c...ontentID=158128
Interesting comments, rather biased....
Why should it only permitted to whip men and not women too? Read what is written in the Quran...
Yes but the cane is only for men, so nobody says a word about it...Not an Islamic, but a British idea, btw. Same in Singapore.
I wonder why this feminist organization was so silent up to now. But equal rights means also equal punishment for the same offence.
Interesting comments, rather biased....
Quote
Most were stunned that whipping of women was permitted in Malaysia's Islamic courts, which operate alongside civil courts under a dual-track system.
Why should it only permitted to whip men and not women too? Read what is written in the Quran...
Quote
In the civil courts, where caning is a common penalty for serious crimes including rape, it is carried out with a long, thick length of rattan which causes intense pain, breaks open the skin and leaves lasting scars.
Yes but the cane is only for men, so nobody says a word about it...Not an Islamic, but a British idea, btw. Same in Singapore.
Quote
"The punishment of whipping is defined as torture and hence we should not in any way condone it," said Amnesty International Malaysia executive director Nora Murat.
I wonder why this feminist organization was so silent up to now. But equal rights means also equal punishment for the same offence.
#10
Posted 27 July 2009 - 04:17 PM
yohan, on 27 July 2009 - 05:46 PM, said:
Attached are pdf's of the original article by Beh Lih Yi for AFP that has been reported widely online, and another from the Malaysian Insider
Malaysia debates caning of woman- Malaysian Insider.pdf (35.2K)
Number of downloads: 5
Whipping for beer-drinking model sparks debate in Malaysia- Beh Lih Yi.pdf (50.65K)
Number of downloads: 6
Apparently the woman is a hospital worker, not apart-time model.
Hopefully this incident will provoke a decent debate that has a wide-ranging effect in Malaysia. I've got a butt full of splinters from fence sitting on things like this. Caning is pretty barbaric, but the threat of it must surely serve as a pretty powerful deterent. As punishment for a Muslim drinking alcohol I think it's a bit over-the-top. There'd be plenty of Muslims who drink- and not just socially.
According to http://en.wikipedia....lam_in_Malaysia in the 2000 census approximately 60.4% of Malaysians are Muslims. This means that nearly 4 in 10 are NOT Muslims- although Article 160 of the Malaysian constitution means all ethnic Malays are Muslim. Surely there are some liberal Muslims who feel put out by this.
http://en.wikipedia....ion_of_Malaysia
Quote
The article defines a Malay as a Malaysian citizen born to a Malaysian citizen who professes to be a Muslim, habitually speaks the Malay language, adheres to Malay customs, and is domiciled in Malaysia or Singapore. As a result, Malay citizens who convert out of Islam are no longer considered Malay under the law. Hence, the Bumiputra privileges afforded to Malays under Article 153 of the Constitution, the New Economic Policy (NEP), etc. are forfeit for such converts.
Likewise, a non-Malay Malaysian who converts to Islam can lay claim to Bumiputra privileges, provided he meets the other conditions.
Likewise, a non-Malay Malaysian who converts to Islam can lay claim to Bumiputra privileges, provided he meets the other conditions.
#12
Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:32 PM
keekwai, on 31 July 2009 - 11:57 PM, said:
Lets cut all the excuses and BS.They are uncivilised animals. 
Either you execute punishments equally for both, men and women, or justice is a complete farce.
Singapore (not Muslim) and Malaysia (partially Muslim) are using the cane for men, including minor age boys frequently, and there is no reason, why not in the time of feminism where women want to be equal to men, to use it for the same offences for women and girls too.
BIG outcry! Human rights and such BS talk.
Strange, up to now nobody said anything about 'uncivilised governments' when talking about Singapore and Malaysia, and the funny part out of all is that the cane is not from Quran in Malaysia/Singapore, but was introduced by the British colonial rulers.
My opinion is either to abolish such punishments for all or to execute such punishments for all who do exactly the same offence regardless to gender.
About Malaysia, I am not the only one, who thinks like that....
Interesting, that not the Muslims, but the Chinese are asking for school discipline with the cane in Malaysia...
http://thestar.com.m...5309&sec=nation
Quote
Education seminar passes resolution to cane female students
By SARAH CHEW
KAJANG: Female students should be caned because their disciplinary cases are just as serious as boys'.
This is the reason behind a call to introduce caning for girls in schools, one of the resolutions passed at the National Seminar on Education Regulations (Student Discipline) 2007. “There have been suggestions that girls should be caned as sometimes there are more girls than boys in schools, and the problems they give are just as serious,†said Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar yesterday when closing the seminar.
By SARAH CHEW
KAJANG: Female students should be caned because their disciplinary cases are just as serious as boys'.
This is the reason behind a call to introduce caning for girls in schools, one of the resolutions passed at the National Seminar on Education Regulations (Student Discipline) 2007. “There have been suggestions that girls should be caned as sometimes there are more girls than boys in schools, and the problems they give are just as serious,†said Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar yesterday when closing the seminar.
And this was written by a Chinese woman
http://www.thestar.c...04403&sec=focus
Quote
For the former, it was an issue of discipline of girls getting worse and worse by the day. For the latter, it was an issue where teachers felt powerless to discipline students that forced them to resort to inappropriate punishment methods, leading to even worse humiliation and harm to the female students. I believe caning of female students is justified and appropriate when used correctly.
I feel that it is a big exaggeration to claim that female students who are caned will be scarred psychologically for life.
I feel that it is a big exaggeration to claim that female students who are caned will be scarred psychologically for life.
This post has been edited by yohan: 31 July 2009 - 11:44 PM
#13
Posted 01 August 2009 - 10:22 AM
keekwai said:
Lets cut all the excuses and BS.They are uncivilised animals.
As no doubt you'd suggest were the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Egyptians and indeed the British Empire, all of whose 'civilisations' practiced both corporal and capital punishment.
We live in effete times.
#14
Posted 01 August 2009 - 10:41 AM
Stocky, on 01 August 2009 - 09:22 AM, said:
As no doubt you'd suggest were the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Egyptians and indeed the British Empire, all of whose 'civilisations' practiced both corporal and capital punishment.
We live in effete times.
We live in effete times.
Greeks,Romans etc .. you complete tw*t! So .."if it was practised in the past .. it must be OK" amazing logic!
I call a spade a spade .. and anyone who thrashes anyone for having a beer is an animal .. end of story.
#15
Posted 01 August 2009 - 11:51 AM
keekwai, on 01 August 2009 - 11:41 AM, said:
Greeks,Romans etc .. you complete tw*t! So .."if it was practised in the past .. it must be OK" amazing logic!
It is NOT a part of the past here in Asia.
What might be not OK in Australia for what reason ever (but why should I care) is OK in Asia, where at least the half of the world population is living.
Might be that Kiwis and nearby islanders' countries always cry for an exemption of the rule...
#16
Posted 01 August 2009 - 01:03 PM
keekwai, on 31 July 2009 - 10:57 PM, said:
Lets cut all the excuses and BS.They are uncivilised animals.
Ah, not like back home eh..
On the other extreme recently in Australia, a judge gave a one-month sentence to a 55-year-old Aboriginal man who anally raped and bashed his 14-year-old "promised wife".
theage.com.au
#17
Posted 01 August 2009 - 02:41 PM
Whatever "facts" you guys want to spout .. the "fact" remains that it is a p*ss weak act to flog anyone for drinking a beer. I am I missing something here? The punishment does NOT fit the "crime" .. Flog a rapist? .. fine! Flog someone for drinking a beer? .. not fine. Simple! I don't give a stuff what "culture" it is. A p*ss weak act is a p*ss weak act. Do you want me to make it any more black and white?
I am not personally responsible for whatever raw deal you think Aboriginals have got .. nor what the Romans or Greeks did .. or the British Empire. I'm speaking as an individual human being who thinks the powers that be in Malaysia are a bunch of uncivilised c**ts.
If you guys want to condone it .. then you're c**ts too.
I am not personally responsible for whatever raw deal you think Aboriginals have got .. nor what the Romans or Greeks did .. or the British Empire. I'm speaking as an individual human being who thinks the powers that be in Malaysia are a bunch of uncivilised c**ts.
If you guys want to condone it .. then you're c**ts too.
This post has been edited by keekwai: 01 August 2009 - 02:46 PM
#20
Posted 02 August 2009 - 05:07 PM
METHOS, on 01 August 2009 - 05:41 PM, said:
-Maybe he needs a therapist...
To put my two cents in, the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime which, from "our" point of view is not even a crime. But that is just that: OUR opinion.
We (read "those of us participating in this forum") are not Malaysian; we do not live in Malaysia; I'd venture to state that none of us is a Muslim or of sufficient strength of Islamic faith to view this offence as an offence against our faith.
We are all entitled to our own opinion and to express said opinion so long as it does not prejudice anyone else. And that is a twin-edged sword.
