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Why do you like living in Singapore


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#1 กำนัน

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:07 AM

I've been doing a great deal of research on Singapore recently because I'm trying to beef up our static content on that key expatriate location.... and I have to say, the more I learn, the more I want to be there. I'm always going on about how I'd like to live in Hong Kong again, this time with my family but it's fair to say that I'm now just as keen on living in Singapore with my family... for many reasons.

Describe your reasons for wanting to be there...

#2 Uncle Gweilo

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:26 AM

View PostMandrunk, on 02 August 2009 - 09:07 AM, said:

the more I learn, the more I want to be there

And you're not the only one! A little bit of Singaporean law would do a lot of us a power of good.

I'll step off my soapbox...  :angry:

#3 METHOS

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:31 AM

I've never been to Singapore before, but there obviously a few of you that are drawn to it. I'd like to know about it.

#4 กำนัน

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:39 AM

Here's my list. There are many reasons but the most important for me is the decent education opportunities. Your children will also grow up up with a better world view, certainly more so than if they grow up in Thailand...

  • Safe, crime free environment
  • Clean, green, leafy streets and parks
  • First class public transport
  • Best airline in the world
  • Top notch education for my kids
  • Low taxation
  • Great health care
  • Integrated society
  • Intelligent city planning
  • Orient Expat's server is in Singapore... so if something goes wrong with the hardware, I can go fix it myself :angry:


#5 Stocky

Posted 02 August 2009 - 09:55 AM

I see you've removed the "racism free" comment ~ I was about to suggest that isn't really so, though racism in Singapore blurs with a class structure predicated on wealth and connections.

#6 กำนัน

Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:03 AM

Yeah... what I meant to say was that it appears to me that the government is more adept at integrating races, without going overboard PC loony style, as we have in the UK. Maybe I'm wrong but it's the impression I get when researching.

#7 Stocky

Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:08 AM

I think it's the Filipino maids and Bangladeshi construction workers that see this most.

I like Singapore, as does the wife, it's a clean, orderly and pleasant city, but I'm not sure we'd want to live there.

#8 METHOS

Posted 02 August 2009 - 10:09 AM

Thanks.

That seems like a very suitable list - especially for a family man. I think those are all very good points.
As a single man in his twenties, however, my priorities are as follows (in no specific order):

1. Cost of living/accommodation
2. Interesting life experience(s)
3. Women
4. Food
5. Women
6. Sleep

I'm having trouble thinking of anything else right now...  :angry:

I know, 'simple minds' with simple needs. I'm sure the list may be different for other single guys...

Like job opportunities and bars etc.

In all truth though, I do think about some of the other things that you have mentioned. I just don't 'worry' about them too much; at least, not right now.

#9 Uncle Gweilo

Posted 02 August 2009 - 02:17 PM

View PostStocky, on 02 August 2009 - 10:08 AM, said:

I think it's the Filipino maids and Bangladeshi construction workers that see this most.


And look at the flood of Malaysians that cross the Causeway each day.

It also struck me in Tang's Department Store that the department managers were all middle class Chinese, the junior floor staff were lower class Chinese and the odd Malay, and the stock boys and floor sweepers were all either Indian/Bangladeshi or Malay.

I know that 7 out of every 9 in Singers is an ethnic Chinese of one shade or other (Hokkien, Teochew, Hakka, Cantonese, and so on) but that was glaringly obvious.

There's also some notion that non-Chinese tend to be all housed together if they are in HDB units.

View PostMandrunk, on 02 August 2009 - 09:39 AM, said:

Here's my list. There are many reasons but the most important for me is the decent education opportunities. Your children will also grow up up with a better world view, certainly more so than if they grow up in Thailand...

  • Safe, crime free environment
  • Clean, green, leafy streets and parks
  • First class public transport
  • Best airline in the world
  • Top notch education for my kids
  • Low taxation
  • Great health care
  • Integrated society
  • Intelligent city planning
  • Orient Expat's server is in Singapore... so if something goes wrong with the hardware, I can go fix it myself :angry:

Big fat tick to all of those in your list.

As much as the locals might want to bitch about their taxis and the costs of owning a car, it's all really small beer when you try and get around other major cities. You really don't need a car in Singers, anyway.

People are polite, once you get used to the way things get done and the odd bit of kiasu-ness in some.

Eating out is dirt cheap, comparatively, if you know where to look. Dining out on Orchard Road and top restaurants every night will empty your wallet quicker than you can blink. But then that's true of just about anywhere. Alcohol is expensive, but then I don't drink that much.

I think as a collective group Singaporeans are starting to loosen up and are learning to make fun of themselves and accept jokes made in good humour about them.

View PostMETHOS, on 02 August 2009 - 10:09 AM, said:

Thanks.

That seems like a very suitable list - especially for a family man. I think those are all very good points.
As a single man in his twenties, however, my priorities are as follows (in no specific order):

1. Cost of living/accommodation
2. Interesting life experience(s)
3. Women
4. Food
5. Women
6. Sleep



1. A good job will cope with that. You certainly wont live like a king unless you're on a stinking good wicket, but I'm not that materialistic.
2. Define "interesting". A drunken meander down the lorongs of Gelyang late at night will give you some "interesting" experiences! Other than that, Singapore is fairly conservative.
3. If it's a local girl you're after, you'll probably be restricted to SPG's if you go out on the pull regularly. Most of the local girls you'll meet in a nightclub will look through you like you're not there. Tourists out for a nameless shag are a different proposition.
4. Some of the best in the world, with probably the greatest variety of international cuisines that may rival or even exceeed what I can get here in Australia. Cheap if you know where to look, not so if you don't. The story goes that if you ask 100 Singaporeans for the best place to get a simple dish like char kway teow, you'll get 100 different answers.
6. So long as you have a decent air-con in your place so that you can oversome the 83% year-round average humidity sleep is easy.

Edited by Uncle Gweilo, 02 August 2009 - 02:03 PM.


#10 TizMe

Posted 02 August 2009 - 03:58 PM

I love living in Singapore, unfortunately my employer has decided that they would rather move me to Kuala Lumpur.

I live way out near the airport and work close by as well. I rarely go into the city and like to live and work out in the 'burbs.

For me, although my condo rental is much higher than what I'd rent for in BKK or KL, so is the salary that more than compensates for the difference.

One of my mates that I worked with in Saudi dropped in last weekend for a few days. We went out Saturday afternoon and spent some time hopping around the bars and restaurants out along the East Coast. It was an eye opener for him, as he'd been to Singapore a few times before but had never been out that way as its not on the "Tourist Pathway". Unfortunateley I didn't take my camera with me, so I can't show you. Hopefully he'll email me copies of his photos when he gets back to Perth.

I can show you some photos that I took some time back though. This is a walk around my neighbourhood:

This is the view from my loungeroom:
Posted Image

Same window, other direction.
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Here's the pool:
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Games Room for the little kids.
http://img200.images...cture007qez.jpg

Sqush Courts:
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Tennis Courts.
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This shot is walking through the car park towards the front gate.
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This is looking down the street.
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But this day I went up the hill through closed section of the road. I'm not really sure why they've closed this section, it would be quite a drive to get from one end to the other, only 50 metres away. Bikes can still get through, but there's a narrow gate behind me in this photo to prevent cars from making it through.
Posted Image

Just past the other end of the closure is this Chinese Buddhist temple.
Most weekends there are parties of one sort or another going on here.
Posted Image

We cant really see much from the road, so lets go inside and have a look.
I don't know why this one's face is covered up. The red covering doesn't go all around, its just over the face.
http://img518.images...picture014b.jpg

The temple has 2 large doors with these 2 bouncers to ensure no riff raff gets in..
http://img198.images...cture015bmz.jpg

http://img198.images...picture016h.jpg

Here's a bit further on up the hill.
http://img32.imagesh...cture025qbo.jpg

And here you can see the final destination of my afternoon walk.
http://img32.imagesh...picture030b.jpg

http://img34.imagesh...picture031v.jpg

#11 Andiamo

Posted 02 August 2009 - 04:47 PM

I would agree with Mandrunk's list and would add the following:

  • Intelligent, educated people around (both locals and expats) with whom one can have a social life
  • It is open to foreigners and recognises that foreign skills are required to build the country. Consequently someone like myself can easily become a PR and can easily feel proud to be helping to build a great nation (compare this to the LOS mentality)
  • Good career opportunities
  • Good infrastructure, eg. Internet, TV, telecoms.
  • Fabulous food
  • Thriving arts - music, theatre, fine arts, etc.
  • Almost no corruption
  • Fully functional legal system and police force.
  • As the Brits founded it, one feels some sense of having a reason to be here.
  • It is a multi-cultural environment with many different races and religions co-existing
  • English is one of the major languages.

I'll comment on the downside and the race thing once I have had chance to gather my thoughts...

#12 Captain Chaos

Posted 03 August 2009 - 10:42 AM

View PostAndiamo, on 02 August 2009 - 04:47 PM, said:

I would agree with Mandrunk's list and would add the following:

  • Intelligent, educated people around (both locals and expats) with whom one can have a social life


Except for ME!  :angry:

(serious comments to follow later...)

#13 Bluecat

Posted 03 August 2009 - 12:18 PM

View PostMandrunk, on 02 August 2009 - 09:39 AM, said:

Here's my list.
  • Safe, crime free environment
  • Clean, green, leafy streets and parks
  • First class public transport
  • Best airline in the world
  • Top notch education for my kids
  • Low taxation
  • Great health care
  • Integrated society
  • Intelligent city planning
  • Orient Expat's server is in Singapore... so if something goes wrong with the hardware, I can go fix it myself :angry:

You got the list right.
And I will add one thing, fantastic parks for children and adults, where you can relax in a green environment. Plenty of them.
For people having children, Singapore is the best place to live in Asia.

#14 Andiamo

Posted 03 August 2009 - 04:18 PM

View PostAndiamo, on 02 August 2009 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'll comment on the downside and the race thing once I have had chance to gather my thoughts...

OK as I know you are all waiting with baited breath, I have now gathered my thoughts :-)

The downside to Singapore: Well everywhere has its annoying little things but I am not going to go into them as they would be different for different people.

The climate has to be mentioned. I mean holy cow it just never cools down. I mean hot and humid 24/7 all year round.

It is way more beautiful than people think when they first come here and see all the shopping malls and government housing. But it has to be said, in spite of many nature reserves, tropical gardens and preserved islands; it is not quite as spectacular as HK.

Some people find the rules and regulations very restricting but if you are not a pirate, terrorist or drug dealer, it's really not a problem.

While it is first world, it is not quite in the same place as the EU in terms of welfare state, labour laws, minimum wages, human rights etc. This doesn't really affect me directly but the way people like housemaids and construction workers get treated around here is not good.

I felt it my duty to point out the downside. In my view the positives are way stronger and this really is a fabulous place to live.

The race issue really is complex and I'll come onto that later when I have had another  chance to think :-)

#15 TizMe

Posted 03 August 2009 - 04:32 PM

Quote

The climate has to be mentioned. I mean holy cow it just never cools down. I mean hot and humid 24/7 all year round.

I find the climate one of the pluses. It's a much nicer climate than at home in Jomtien. Every day that I wake up, I know 99% of the time that it's going to be 30-32 degrees. My condo has air-cond but I almost never use it, I sleep with the windows opens and enjoy the nightly breezes. Maybe this is another advantage living out in the east.

This makes me think of another HUGE thing that I like about Singapore... MOSQUITOES... or lack of. I could never sleep at home in Thailand uncovered with the windows wide open to catch a breeze; I'd wake up looking like a lunar landscape.

#16 Uncle Gweilo

Posted 04 August 2009 - 01:06 PM

23 to 25 degrees as a minimum and 31 to 35 as a maximum year-round. Also, 83% average humidity year-round (higher in the monsoon!)

Is it any wonder when asked what the greatest invention of the 20th Century was Singaporeans voted air-conditioning as their number one choice?

#17 Captain Chaos

Posted 05 August 2009 - 12:11 AM

View PostTizMe, on 03 August 2009 - 04:32 PM, said:

I find the climate one of the pluses. It's a much nicer climate than at home in Jomtien. Every day that I wake up, I know 99% of the time that it's going to be 30-32 degrees. My condo has air-cond but I almost never use it, I sleep with the windows opens and enjoy the nightly breezes. Maybe this is another advantage living out in the east.

This makes me think of another HUGE thing that I like about Singapore... MOSQUITOES... or lack of. I could never sleep at home in Thailand uncovered with the windows wide open to catch a breeze; I'd wake up looking like a lunar landscape.


I'm with Handi-Andi on this one - I don't like the climate in Singers as much as I do in Bangkok - the equatorial climate with minimal seasonality bores me I suppose. In BKK there is the monsoon to endure, but then there's 4 months of the dry season, with glorious clear weather and low humidity...

Certainly couldn't sleep with the windows open in my shophouse condo in Chinatown - you'd go deaf!!! Definitely a tick in the box for living out on East Coast there but unfortunately my office and MiniChaos' skool are both in the City area. Horses for courses and all that  :angry:

View PostBluecat, on 03 August 2009 - 12:18 PM, said:

You got the list right.
And I will add one thing, fantastic parks for children and adults, where you can relax in a green environment. Plenty of them.
For people having children, Singapore is the best place to live in Asia.


Yes, agree there - MiniChaos has easy access to all sorts of things he never had in BKK or in upcountry Thailand. It's not just physically getting to - for example - his rugby club, it's the fact that it actually exists in the first place and welcomes kids of all shapes, sizes, ethnicity and economic means, rather than being restricted to HiSo types.

Pond fishing, Singapore style, is also becoming a firm favourite activity - most recent expedition was to Pasir Ris where he caught a sea bass that was a couple of pounds in weight. Enough for supper anyway!  :D

#18 teruchan

Posted 05 August 2009 - 02:45 PM

As far as rAcism is concerned, I would love to know the real scoop on how well black guys are accepted there as opposed to foreigners in general. Nothing I have heard or read has ever made me want to even visit the place, let alone live there. (with a possible exception for lucasfilm, but thTs because it's lucasfilm and it wouldn't matter what country they put it in. )

#19 Uncle Gweilo

Posted 06 August 2009 - 11:16 PM

Thanks for bringing this point up, Teruchan.

Suppose the rest of us just naturally assumed that any expat is going to be a white (and a native English speaker at that) of some nationality. Personally it never really occured to me.

As far as I'm aware, black people don't get the same treatment as whites in China or Japan. When certain African countries sent some of their young men to China for Maoist indoctrination sorry, university education, back in the 70's and 80's they were treated pretty shabbily. Perhaps it was the shock and ignorance of never having seen someone with skin that dark as much as the "black = monkey" outright racism that provoked their reaction.  One of the women staying in my hostel when I was in Beijing in 2005 is a black English girl and she caused crowds of gawping locals whenever she was walking in the streets. But then again, so did the Dutch girl who had a very curvy figure and white blonde hair.

Apart from a generally high level of xenophobia against almost all foreigners, the Japanese probably assume that most black men there are likely to be Marines or other U.S. forces- particularly on Okinawa.

Ethnic Indians generally tend to get the rough end of the pineapple from the ethnic Chinese in Singapore, so maybe negroids of whatever nationality could be on the receiving end of a bit of discrimmination as well. I must admit it's not something that I'd thought about or even consciously observed any time I was in Singapore.

#20 กำนัน

Posted 10 August 2009 - 08:47 AM

View PostAndiamo, on 03 August 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

it is not quite as spectacular as HK
I've got to agree with this... nowhere I've ever been even comes close to Hong Kong's mountains and skyline combination...
http://www.orientexp...post__p__119019

#21 Andiamo

Posted 14 August 2009 - 04:09 PM

I wanted to say a few words on the race issue on Singapore which has been mentioned on this thread.

A few weeks ago, I read a thread on another Singapore Expat forum entitled “Are Singaporeans Racist”. The thread soon burst into flames with Expats expressing very direct views on the racism of the locals. After two days it was deleted without warning or explanation.

If you talk to Singaporeans you will hear their little prejudices and a list of who they look down on and who they consider to be inferior to them.

However, in spite of all this and in spite of the fact we have a potentially explosive racial mix here of ethnic Chinese, Malays, Indians and various  “others”, things are very peaceful here.

Lee Kuan Yew’s post-war government took a radical and original approach to racial integration. While racial enclaves were entrenched in Paris, London and New York, Singapore enforced racial integration. In the government housing where most Singaporeans live, racial mixing was enforced. Every floor of every block had to have a racial balance of Chinese, Malays, Indians and Others.

The Singaporean reaction to radical Islamism has been to build multi-faith forums and organisations and to encourage all sectors of the community to work together. (Compare this to the Thai government’s policy of issuing guns to the “Buddhists” in the south).

When I cycle along the East Coast Park I see Chinese, Muslims, Indians and even a few Caucasians, roller-blading, fishing, jogging, cycling and just having fun with their families. I see young people of different races walking along smiling and laughing. I do some part-time teaching at a Polytechnic and I see students of all races working and having fun together.

Singapore is not perfect and I don’t agree with everything they do but they do have solutions to some of the problems that are plaguing so many countries of the world.

#22 MichaelMyers

Posted 15 August 2009 - 07:19 AM

View PostMETHOS, on 02 August 2009 - 10:09 AM, said:

Thanks.

That seems like a very suitable list - especially for a family man. I think those are all very good points.
As a single man in his twenties, however, my priorities are as follows (in no specific order):

1. Cost of living/accommodation
2. Interesting life experience(s)
3. Women
4. Food
5. Women
6. Sleep

I'm having trouble thinking of anything else right now...  :angry:

I know, 'simple minds' with simple needs. I'm sure the list may be different for other single guys...

Like job opportunities and bars etc.


I am also a single man in his 20's, so here are my feedback about Singapore from my 4 day trip.Only been to Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore in SEA so my comparisons will be based on these countries.

1:1. Cost of living/accommodation:The most expensive of these 3 countries.It is said there are 3 types of accommodation, HDB (price range between 140.000 $-600.000) condos (700.000 and up) and private housing (4m and up, and i must add that the ones that they showed us pretty modest houses, value of the land makes them so expensive.) Dont know about rent prices, but if you want to own property in Singapore you need to be loaded.


2. Interesting life experience(s):Well i think Singapore is dull and boring compared to Thailand (but i think rest of the world is also dull and boring compared to thailand)and funnier than Malaysia.Shopping plazas seems to be everywhere.Lots of green land and they are adding more parks each day.They are planning to make Singapore "the country in a garden".Its really clean, safe and well organised like its mentioned.Its just like someone is playing Simcity with the island.Too quiet, too safe, too orderly for me.(and too expensive).As a Turk who spend his life in a chaotic environment i only had hardtime with avoiding from jaywalking, besides that the rules and fines don't bother me that much.You can see the whole country in 3 4 days.The thing i don't like is almost everything is artificial.Also you won't live the culture shock or really feel you are in Asia.Its too western.

3. Women:Well, in 4 days i can not comment accurately about women but i can say i like what i saw.But its commonly said that its hard to interact with local girls, unless you have cash, condo, card, credit card etc.But there is also a important population of Philippines, Indonesians etc. working as nurses, secretaries.You can socialize with them in tea dances on Sundays.

4. Food:Well i gained 4 or 5 kgs in 14 days.Food is versatile.You can find Malay, Indian, Thai, Chinese food easily.I don't even mention all kinds of Western Food.Chilli Crab and Satay can be considered as S'pore food i guess.All tasty.Also prices change from place to place.Paid 65$ for 2 tiger beers, roasted chicken, fried calamari, and rice with crab meat (all small portions) in Boat Quay.But at the food stalls in china town each bowl will cost 2-3 $.To summarise, you wont be dissappointed, you can find everything, depending on your money and your taste.

6. Sleep:Well, i can only comment on weather and environment.The weather is hot.Too hot.I don't think that i can live without a a/c there.And the environment is usually quiet, only thing to worry about is constructions.

7.job opportunities and bars:I know that your work is related to constructions (steel frames right?) well i see lots of new buildings rising up, and for an outsider the market seemed to be vibrant for construction.Also i think that they are focusing on biomedical engineering so i guess its a nieche market so if you work on that field and have experience, you can find a job in Singapore.

And for bars i guess night life is focused on Chimes, Boat Quay, and Clarke Quay.They all seemed classy and pricey places.Chimes seemed to be the least popular, and Clarke Quay seemed to be the most.Only in Boat Quay i was hassled.There are many nice restaurants and pubs in that areas.But i must add that its very tame comparing to Thailand.Zouk club seemed to be the hottest spot in town.Never been there but heard lots of good things.

And for Orchard Towers, i must say i was dissappointed.I decided to take a barathone in almost each club and saw pretty much all of it.Ipenama seemed to be the most active one but its nothing more than a pick up joint.The music is dull, the atmosphere is boring.Its useless unless you want to find someone to spend the night.I was scared before i entered Beach Club because i read the place was overrun with lady boys.Yes, there were lady boys but its not all ladyboy place.The place was laid-back and funny.Not too much hassle from ladyboys.I just looked at the Romeo Club from outside and all i could see was the ladyboys so i avoided that place.Top 5 was the only place i could see European working ladies.There was a band from Thailand and the place is nice but it seemed almost empty all the time.The rest of the tower is mostly run by Philippinas and pretty much the same.As i read from the internet i thought it as a temple of sin and quilty pleasures but its really far away from that.Heineken costs 10$, lady drinks 18-40$.

Its pricey to taste nightlife scene in town, but a taxi driver told me its for much more reasonable price in Bugis.

They are also constructing 2 Las Vegas style casinos (one near the flyer, one in Santosa) so there will be much more to see in Singapore in 2010.In my point of view, unless i had a family, and i become rich enough to mention million $ figures, i will stay out of Singapore.(Its impossible for me to find a better jon than here in Singapore i must add)

#23 illa

Posted 21 August 2009 - 07:46 AM

I think one of the things I miss most.. or appreciate more when I leave is music.  Most cities have a host of lie music everywhere you go.. there is a few places in Singapore that have regular bars I guess.. but not a lot..  

Other then that I love the place.. espically have a decent beach thats easily reachable.. also not having to spend multiple hours a day in traffic is great

#24 กำนัน

Posted 02 September 2009 - 02:00 PM

Lets just remind ourselves that if you run out of luck, even the wealthiest cities are a harsh place to be when your out of cash...



#25 Uncle Gweilo

Posted 03 September 2009 - 11:06 PM

Too true. The lack of free health care in Singapore is one of the disincentives to living there. It also seems to me that the richer the city is, the worse off its poorest citizens are- like the auntie in this article.

As an aside, scan across the bottom of the youtube window to the link link to the Singaporean "Crime Watch" episode on gang bashing. There is a somewhat quaint- if that's the word- way Singaporeans address things like crime. The attached pic is down near the main railway station on Cantonment Road.

Attached File  Singapore 2001- 5022a.jpg   173.1K   

#26 Captain Chaos

Posted 04 September 2009 - 01:01 AM

View PostMandrunk, on 10 August 2009 - 08:47 AM, said:

I've got to agree with this... nowhere I've ever been even comes close to Hong Kong's mountains and skyline combination...
http://www.orientexp...post__p__119019


Overall I would agree, but you can get some great shots of the Raffles Quay / CBD area all lit up at night by going up in the "Singapore Flyer" (big wheel type thing, similar to the London Eye) - obviously not if it's raining though (guess who managed that  :rolleyes: )

With the night race F1 coming up the track area is lit up with some incredible lamps strung over the top of it, would imagine that would make a spectacular distance shot - will try to get some pics in the next couple of weeks...


CC

#27 กำนัน

Posted 22 April 2010 - 09:01 AM

Related thread: What are the downsides to living in Singapore?

#28 Heart

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:38 AM

I love the "clean freak" Singapore  :whistling:

#29 karels

Posted 17 June 2010 - 10:41 AM

Things I like: :blink:

* fairly clean streets
* fairly easy to ask people on the street questions if you are lost or need to find something
* good assortment of restaurants and hotels
* boutique hotels
* good shopping
* 'culturally separate' areas like Little India, Chinatown, etc.
* Mustafa's 24 hour shopping
* lots of decent places to walk around and check out
* feels fairly safe most of the time


Things I don't like:
:whistling:

* the idiots who work in the banks - the epitome of clueless
* some areas not clearly being designated smoking areas - a big deal since Singapore is so fanatical about following the rules and loves to make examples of 'bad foreigners'
* the fact that it is extremely difficult to get taxis in most areas because taxis are not allowed to just stop and pick people up unless it is at a designated taxi stand - I've had to walk in excess of 10 blocks because of this before
* the old Chinese guys walking around in their crusty boxer shorts and wife-beaters, horking up green loogies and scratching themselves in places nobody needs to see
* the same old Chinese guys taking boats from Singapore to Bintan and Batam in Indonesia to take advantage of the child prostitution there - sickening
* Mustafa's 24 hour shopping when it's an Indonesian holiday - the Indonesians take their kids shopping with them til 3am, all the while destroying the shopping experience for others


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