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Why is it that the custodians of the Islamic religion in Malaysia, seem bent on alienating possible visiters to the country and their spending money, by clamping down on their own Muslim citizens, with seemingly nonsensical rules.
Recently, international popstars have been banned from performing on stage, having been deemed to be wearing indecent clothing. [Who decides this?]
Now on New Years Day in Kuala Lumpur, 52 couples will be charged with sexual misconduct after being caught in hotel rooms, during raids by the Islamic Morality Police. The mind boggles.
It seems that just before dawn on Jan.1, teams of officers hit budget hotels, banging on doors and detaining unmarried couples.
I wonder what kind of dark perversed minds are members of these 'police.'
Malaysia shooting itself In The Foot.... Again
#2
Posted 05 January 2010 - 06:17 PM
skydiver777, on 05 January 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:
It seems that just before dawn on Jan.1, teams of officers hit budget hotels, banging on doors and detaining unmarried couples.
I wonder what kind of dark perversed minds are members of these 'police.'
I wonder what kind of dark perversed minds are members of these 'police.'
http://www.google.co...-pwGAi48rIs9Qlw
I heard this on the radio here this morning. They staked out a stack of hotels all over Selangor and do so on public holidays, when this sort of "thing" is more likely to happen.
A bit like our coppers hanging around pubs to bust drunks driving home.
This post has been edited by Uncle Gweilo: 05 January 2010 - 06:18 PM
#3
Posted 05 January 2010 - 10:14 PM
This has always been the case, but the Sharia police will only prosecute Muslims who are caught together without a marriage certificate, it doesn't apply to non-Muslim Malaysians or foreigners, provided of course you're not caught with a Muslim women.
#4
Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:56 PM
Stocky, on 05 January 2010 - 10:14 PM, said:
1 -This has always been the case, but the Sharia police will only prosecute Muslims who are caught together without a marriage
certificate,
2 -it doesn't apply to non-Muslim Malaysians or foreigners, provided of course you're not caught with a Muslim women.
certificate,
2 -it doesn't apply to non-Muslim Malaysians or foreigners, provided of course you're not caught with a Muslim women.
1 - Correct, but this Sharia police is looking after all and everything... Muslim drinking alcohol, or not correct clothings, or
eating during Ramadan etc. and this Sharia police is also disturbing non-Muslims in hotel-rooms, restaurants, discos etc.
2 -
Not sure, I do not know about a single case, where a non-Muslim was facing trial in a Malaysian Sharia Court.
See article below.
Is there any case known where a non-Muslim had to stand trial in a Malaysian Sharia Court?
http://timesofindia....how/5029007.cms
Quote
Though Malaysia has long been upheld as an example of a moderate Muslim-majority country, recent
verdicts sentencing Muslims to whipping for drinking alcohol have made headlines. Two months ago, an Islamic judge triggered a national debate when he ordered a woman to be caned for drinking beer.
In the latest case, the shariah high court in Selangor state sentenced the couple on Wednesday to
six strokes of the cane after they pleaded guilty to trying to have sex out of wedlock in their car, said prosecutor Shafezan Rusli.
Shariah laws apply to Muslims, who make up about 60% of the 28 million population, in all personal matters.
Non-Muslims are not subject to the laws.
Earlier this week, an Islamic court in another state ordered an Indonesian Muslim man to be whipped six times and jailed a year for drinking liquor at a restaurant. In July, the same court had sentenced a Malaysian woman to six strokes of the cane and a fine for drinking beer in public.
verdicts sentencing Muslims to whipping for drinking alcohol have made headlines. Two months ago, an Islamic judge triggered a national debate when he ordered a woman to be caned for drinking beer.
In the latest case, the shariah high court in Selangor state sentenced the couple on Wednesday to
six strokes of the cane after they pleaded guilty to trying to have sex out of wedlock in their car, said prosecutor Shafezan Rusli.
Shariah laws apply to Muslims, who make up about 60% of the 28 million population, in all personal matters.
Non-Muslims are not subject to the laws.
Earlier this week, an Islamic court in another state ordered an Indonesian Muslim man to be whipped six times and jailed a year for drinking liquor at a restaurant. In July, the same court had sentenced a Malaysian woman to six strokes of the cane and a fine for drinking beer in public.
If you decide to marry quickly after they got you, you get away without the cane on your behind...
http://thestar.com.m...0336&sec=nation
Quote
Syariah judge Mohammad Khalid Shaee @ Shaii, who allowed the couple’s lawyer Shahida Elias’ application to appeal the caning sentence, also advised the pair, Mohd Shahrin Abd Majid, 29, and Nadiah Najat Hussin, 24, to tie the knot quickly as in mitigation they had stated that they were engaged.
“It is easy to get married, won’t even take five minutes. If you are married, then there is no problem. After Aidilfitri, seek permission from Nadiah’s father for her hand in marriage,” he said.
On Thursday, the court fined each of them RM5,000 or 12 months’ jail in default and imposed six strokes of the rotan after they pleaded guilty to attempting to have sex in the backseat of a Proton Iswara car at the parking lot of the PKNS complex here around 7.15pm on May 16.
The couple, who were dressed only in their undergarments when caught, paid the fine but are appealing the caning sentence.
“It is easy to get married, won’t even take five minutes. If you are married, then there is no problem. After Aidilfitri, seek permission from Nadiah’s father for her hand in marriage,” he said.
On Thursday, the court fined each of them RM5,000 or 12 months’ jail in default and imposed six strokes of the rotan after they pleaded guilty to attempting to have sex in the backseat of a Proton Iswara car at the parking lot of the PKNS complex here around 7.15pm on May 16.
The couple, who were dressed only in their undergarments when caught, paid the fine but are appealing the caning sentence.
This post has been edited by yohan: 05 January 2010 - 11:51 PM
#5
Posted 06 January 2010 - 12:06 AM
Quote
Correct, but this Sharia police is looking after all and everything..
I was talking specifically about the hotel raid on couples indulging in "sexual misconduct" in the OP, of course they don't limit themselves to just this. However, prosecutions for alcohol offenses and inappropriate clothing vary radically from state to state, the raiding of hotels is a lot more common. Certainly it was standard salacious fare for the newspapers when I lived there.
But the Sharia law only applies to Muslims in Malaysia, unless, as I said, a non-Muslim is involved with Muslim woman.
#6
Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:14 AM
Stocky, on 06 January 2010 - 12:06 AM, said:
But the Sharia law only applies to Muslims in Malaysia, unless, as I said, a non-Muslim is involved with Muslim woman.
Do you have any reference for that? Any known case where a non-Muslim had to face Sharia Court in Malaysia?
And if yes, what happened to the non-Muslim and what happened to the Muslim?
For sure, it is not illegal to have non-Muslim wife as a Muslim man, so same as the link I gave, they need only to marry (and can divorce later again) - but what about the non-Muslim man and the Muslim woman? That would be nice to know the details...
For sure this Sharia police will not help Malaysia to promote tourism, except maybe tourism from Muslim countries like from Pakistan or Iran or Saudi Arabia.
I really wonder the future of Malaysia, somehow I think, it is getting more and more complicated.
#7
Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:27 AM
yohan, on 06 January 2010 - 02:14 AM, said:
Any known case where a non-Muslim had to face Sharia Court in Malaysia?
And if yes, what happened to the non-Muslim and what happened to the Muslim?
And if yes, what happened to the non-Muslim and what happened to the Muslim?
A couple of questions I'd thought about myself.
I suppose it would largely depend on the nature of the offence(s) committed. Seeing as the influence of Islam varies across Malaysia, there could be a more rigid adherence to the rules and stricter punishments in a state like Terengganu which is predominantly Muslim over somewhere like the more cosmopolitan Kuala Lumpur- where there are not only a lot of non-Muslim Malaysians, but stacks of tourists. But that sort of thing would not be unique to Malaysia.
One would assume a tourist would be fined and/or deported. A local would be more likely to cop something more severe.
This post has been edited by Uncle Gweilo: 06 January 2010 - 06:29 AM
#8
Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:45 AM
What was the outcome for the Malay girl that was sentenced to 6 strokes of the cane for drinking?
Last I heard was that her punishment was being delayed until after Ramadan?
To answer myself:
Just found this abigmessage.com
Last I heard was that her punishment was being delayed until after Ramadan?
To answer myself:
Just found this abigmessage.com
Quote
At the last minute, the caning sentence on Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was postponed because it was thought to be inappropriate to carry out the caning during the holy month of Ramadan.
But it is now 4 months since Ramadan. And there is still no sign of when the caning sentence will be carried out. Now Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno has spoken up. In a recent interview with AFP, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno said: ”I don’t want to pressure them but what they promised is to postpone the caning until after the holy month of Ramadan, which was over in September.”
What is happening to this caning case of Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno? No one seems to know. The Attorney General said he is not involved this delay. The prison authorities said it has now acquired the expertise to cane a woman. The Syariah authorities said there is no legal impediment to carrying out the caning on Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno. So why the delay? Said a frustrated Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno: “Even my lawyers don’t know how they should help me now.”
But what does Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno want to see happen to her case? She said: ”My stand is still the same – if they decide they want to cane me, please do it.”
Then Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno added: “They should declare what they want to do with me, tell me, don’t leave me in limbo, at least I would know where am I.”
But it is now 4 months since Ramadan. And there is still no sign of when the caning sentence will be carried out. Now Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno has spoken up. In a recent interview with AFP, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno said: ”I don’t want to pressure them but what they promised is to postpone the caning until after the holy month of Ramadan, which was over in September.”
What is happening to this caning case of Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno? No one seems to know. The Attorney General said he is not involved this delay. The prison authorities said it has now acquired the expertise to cane a woman. The Syariah authorities said there is no legal impediment to carrying out the caning on Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno. So why the delay? Said a frustrated Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno: “Even my lawyers don’t know how they should help me now.”
But what does Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno want to see happen to her case? She said: ”My stand is still the same – if they decide they want to cane me, please do it.”
Then Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno added: “They should declare what they want to do with me, tell me, don’t leave me in limbo, at least I would know where am I.”
This post has been edited by TizMe: 06 January 2010 - 07:56 AM
Reason for edit: just found this
#9
Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:16 AM
Uncle Gweilo, on 06 January 2010 - 06:27 AM, said:
..... where there are not only a lot of non-Muslim Malaysians, but stacks of tourists. But that sort of thing would not be unique to Malaysia.
One would assume a tourist would be fined and/or deported. A local would be more likely to cop something more severe.
One would assume a tourist would be fined and/or deported. A local would be more likely to cop something more severe.
I can only repeat, that I do not know about any case in Malaysia of a non-Muslim (regardless if local or foreigner) who was facing Sharia Court, regardless out of what reason. Malaysian laws says clearly, Sharia Court is for Muslim only. Secular court is for non-Muslim. Foreigner or not.
However there are other laws, for the non-Sharia secular court, for example about fully drunk in public (I think, Singapore has also something like that) - but I do not think, there is anything about being together with a woman or man, married or not married, regardless their religion.
Anybody who knows more about that?
#10
Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:19 AM
re: Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno
Great minds think alike, Tiz. Just too lazy to go looking for the information myself.
I'm starting to get a whiff of the piquant odour of burning martyr with this. I don't know why she's pursuing it.
Don't know the full particulars of the case, but it would appear the relevant authorities have decided that to carry the punishment out would create too much of a stink at home and abroad.
Mind you, I really wouldn't want the threat of that hanging over my head as a "debt" that can be called in at any time.
This from the New Straits Times dated last November:
http://www.nst.com.m...icle/index_html
The Wiki article on caning in Malaysia cites some sources suggesting that Malaysian authorities are trying to bury the issue, but that dates back to last August.
http://en.wikipedia....ing_in_Malaysia
Great minds think alike, Tiz. Just too lazy to go looking for the information myself.
I'm starting to get a whiff of the piquant odour of burning martyr with this. I don't know why she's pursuing it.
Don't know the full particulars of the case, but it would appear the relevant authorities have decided that to carry the punishment out would create too much of a stink at home and abroad.
Mind you, I really wouldn't want the threat of that hanging over my head as a "debt" that can be called in at any time.
This from the New Straits Times dated last November:
http://www.nst.com.m...icle/index_html
Quote
The caning sentence imposed on part-time model Sari Dewi Shukarno still has not been carried out following syubahah (doubt) in the implementation.
Pahang Religious Affairs Committee Chairman Datuk Mohamad Sahfri Ab Aziz said they must be careful when carrying out the punishement, especially on female offenders.
Pahang Religious Affairs Committee Chairman Datuk Mohamad Sahfri Ab Aziz said they must be careful when carrying out the punishement, especially on female offenders.
The Wiki article on caning in Malaysia cites some sources suggesting that Malaysian authorities are trying to bury the issue, but that dates back to last August.
http://en.wikipedia....ing_in_Malaysia
This post has been edited by Uncle Gweilo: 06 January 2010 - 09:26 AM
#11
Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:22 AM
TizMe, on 06 January 2010 - 07:45 AM, said:
What was the outcome for the Malay girl that was sentenced to 6 strokes of the cane for drinking?
Quote
From the text: Against precedents and against expectations, Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno refused to appeal her caning sentence. She was set to become the first woman in Malaysia to be caned.
I see no reason, why only men and not women should face the cane. It's all about equality, but I guess, she got away with that somehow and nothing happened to her, otherwise all women rights activists/UNIFEM etc.. worldwide would show up with a big outcry. But there is nothing but silence.
Same also in Saudi Arabia, with a boy and girl, both sentenced to the same punishment by the whip, he accepted and got it - and she made the usual feminist outcry and finally got away with nothing.
#12
Posted 06 January 2010 - 01:52 PM
Didn't she refuse to appeal on the basis that she wanted to provoke an international outcry / debate over the use of corporal punishment (whether on men or women)?
My guess is that the Malaysian authorities have spotted that train coming and therefore will just not carry out the punishment, in the hope that the whole issue will then quietly slip away...
My guess is that the Malaysian authorities have spotted that train coming and therefore will just not carry out the punishment, in the hope that the whole issue will then quietly slip away...
#13
Posted 06 January 2010 - 06:01 PM
CC said:
Didn't she refuse to appeal on the basis that she wanted to provoke an international outcry / debate over the use of corporal punishment (whether on men or women)?
I think she said "bring it on and I'll sue your arse off", but more politely.
Yohan said:
Do you have any reference for that? Any known case where a non-Muslim had to face Sharia Court in Malaysia?
No, I have no references, it was just one of those things I was warned not to do when I lived in Malaysia for fear of dire consequences. I'm not sure that, as a non-Muslim, you could be arraigned before the Sharia court, but there are laws on the statute book of the normal criminal court, such as "outraging a woman's modesty", which you might be prosecuted.
#14
Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:12 PM
According to today's Bangkok Post, Malaysian authorities have caned 3 women for taking part in sexual activity outside of marriage.
The sentences were carried out on Feb.6, after a religious court found them guilty.
They were whipped 6 times.
Needs two to tango. So the blokes walked then?
Of course sex out of wedlock is illegal under Islamic law, but why this one sided subjucation of women.
The case of Kartika Shukarno who was found guilty of drinking beer and sentenced to be flogged, is once again on the backburner. She wants her sentence to be carried out in public and under the gaze of the media.
The problem for the authorities to consider,is the international criticism drawn upon them when the sentence was first announced. The so called country's moderate image came under scrutiny at a time when trying to draw in investors and increase tourism.
Meanwhile in the western world, life goes on as per normal;
A New Zealand man is asking the High Court, to rule that it is OK to ride a bicycle bolloko on public roads.
He had been fined for offensive behavior in public.
A weatherman broadcasting from Sydney's Taronga Zoo, had to make a quick exit, when a pelican lunged at him and locked onto his ar#s. That must have been painful. Wonder how they separated them.
In Moscow, traffic came to a halt as a giant ad screen started showing porno flics.
The 2 minute clip, caused by someone hacking into a computer system, caused havoc near to the Kremlin.
Unfortunately an elderly motorist had a wobbler, while watching the scenes.
And here in the LOS, THAI Airways has transferred the director of brand managment to an inactive post, for...irregularities. Wonder what happened there then.
The sentences were carried out on Feb.6, after a religious court found them guilty.
They were whipped 6 times.
Needs two to tango. So the blokes walked then?
Of course sex out of wedlock is illegal under Islamic law, but why this one sided subjucation of women.
The case of Kartika Shukarno who was found guilty of drinking beer and sentenced to be flogged, is once again on the backburner. She wants her sentence to be carried out in public and under the gaze of the media.
The problem for the authorities to consider,is the international criticism drawn upon them when the sentence was first announced. The so called country's moderate image came under scrutiny at a time when trying to draw in investors and increase tourism.
Meanwhile in the western world, life goes on as per normal;
A New Zealand man is asking the High Court, to rule that it is OK to ride a bicycle bolloko on public roads.
He had been fined for offensive behavior in public.
A weatherman broadcasting from Sydney's Taronga Zoo, had to make a quick exit, when a pelican lunged at him and locked onto his ar#s. That must have been painful. Wonder how they separated them.
In Moscow, traffic came to a halt as a giant ad screen started showing porno flics.
The 2 minute clip, caused by someone hacking into a computer system, caused havoc near to the Kremlin.
Unfortunately an elderly motorist had a wobbler, while watching the scenes.
And here in the LOS, THAI Airways has transferred the director of brand managment to an inactive post, for...irregularities. Wonder what happened there then.
#15
Posted 18 February 2010 - 09:41 PM
skydiver777, on 18 February 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:
..... Malaysian authorities have caned 3 women for taking part in sexual activity outside of marriage.
.....The sentences were carried out on Feb.6, after a religious court found them guilty.
.....They were whipped 6 times.
Needs two to tango. So the blokes walked then?
Of course sex out of wedlock is illegal under Islamic law, but why this one sided subjucation of women.
.....The sentences were carried out on Feb.6, after a religious court found them guilty.
.....They were whipped 6 times.
Needs two to tango. So the blokes walked then?
Of course sex out of wedlock is illegal under Islamic law, but why this one sided subjucation of women.
Answer: It was NOT one-sided, but Western press did not report the whole thing, but was cutting out important details - brainwashing....
http://www.themalays...caning-of-women
Quote
The three women offenders, together with four men, had been sentenced to whipping under section 23 (2) of the Kuala Lumpur Federal Territory Syariah Criminal Offences Act 1997 (Adultery) by the Kuala Lumpur Syariah High Court between December 2009 and January this year.
Western press is feminist orientated and only females can be 'victims'.
It was not one-sided and men were also punished, but no newspaper will write anything about men, who are just accepting their punishment.
It is much more interesting (and lucrative for the news agency) to write about women, who do not accept their punishment.
Men are getting frequently more beating than women because of the Malaysian Penal code btw...
Quote
Under prison rules, only those who are serving a sentence can be caned. But civil law does not allow caning for women while only men below 50 can receive the punishment.
In Malaysia the worst treatment is reserved for minor age boys, they get all the beatings from their teachers, while girls are getting away unpunished...
Please check articles
http://afp.google.co...3Dcf_nw6Qj1x5Gw
http://www.themalays...-cane-girls-too
#16
Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:58 AM
I concur that men do seem to be hit on same as the women, and maybe more so.
Most of the sentences are carried out in private, in prison confines without any form of media observing.
Indeed it looks as though the men have no access to any form of publicity or association that are able to illustrate the sharia courts often outlandish sentences.
I was surprised to learn that Malaysia's Muslim women actually have their own activist group, which is getting increasingly volatile.
Activist group, Sisters in Islam, said it was 'shocked' at the news of the caning of the 3 women.
Hamidah Marican, director of the group said; [quote]
'To do this surreptitiously implies that the government wanted to hide this degrading and unjust treatment from public scrutiny. This case constitutes further discrimination against Muslim women in Malaysia.'
Maybe time for the guys to sort out a 'mouth-piece.'
Most of the sentences are carried out in private, in prison confines without any form of media observing.
Indeed it looks as though the men have no access to any form of publicity or association that are able to illustrate the sharia courts often outlandish sentences.
I was surprised to learn that Malaysia's Muslim women actually have their own activist group, which is getting increasingly volatile.
Activist group, Sisters in Islam, said it was 'shocked' at the news of the caning of the 3 women.
Hamidah Marican, director of the group said; [quote]
'To do this surreptitiously implies that the government wanted to hide this degrading and unjust treatment from public scrutiny. This case constitutes further discrimination against Muslim women in Malaysia.'
Maybe time for the guys to sort out a 'mouth-piece.'
#17
Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:43 PM
Before writing this piece, I had to go and make a check on today's date to make sure I had not been propelled through some kind of time warp and it was somehow back to April 1st.
But no, everything was as it should be, despite being gob-smacked from reading a column in today's Bangkok Post.
It concerned Manchester United, and although as a Liverpool F C supporter, Man U and it's manager is loathed by me and all LFC fans, this latest ruling by Malaysia's clerics, means anything can happen.
It seems there are thousands of Man U fans in Malaysia and they are all up in arms and flooding Facebook and Twitter etc with complaints.
The clerics have decreed that the wearing of the 'red jersey and emblem' is now banned for Muslims as it is 'un-Islamic and a symbol of the devil.'
Nooh Gadot, a top Islamic leader, stated;
'This is very dangerous. As a Muslim, we should not worship the symbols of other religions or the devils.
All those who have worn or are wearing the garment should remove it and prostrate themseves and repent immediately.'
You can't make it up....
But no, everything was as it should be, despite being gob-smacked from reading a column in today's Bangkok Post.
It concerned Manchester United, and although as a Liverpool F C supporter, Man U and it's manager is loathed by me and all LFC fans, this latest ruling by Malaysia's clerics, means anything can happen.
It seems there are thousands of Man U fans in Malaysia and they are all up in arms and flooding Facebook and Twitter etc with complaints.
The clerics have decreed that the wearing of the 'red jersey and emblem' is now banned for Muslims as it is 'un-Islamic and a symbol of the devil.'
Nooh Gadot, a top Islamic leader, stated;
'This is very dangerous. As a Muslim, we should not worship the symbols of other religions or the devils.
All those who have worn or are wearing the garment should remove it and prostrate themseves and repent immediately.'
You can't make it up....
#18
Posted 23 July 2010 - 02:43 PM
Well as a Villa fan I tend to concur with the good Mullah, Man Ure are indeed the work of the Devil and Alex Ferguson is Satan's spawn.
#19
Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:37 PM
http://sports.yahoo....sia-manujerseys
This ban does not exist, and if, it would be only for Muslims (their problem), not for people of other religions.
That's ridiculous.
There are people existing in this world, who are creating problems where no problems do exist.
This ban does not exist, and if, it would be only for Muslims (their problem), not for people of other religions.
Quote
Harussani Zakaria, a cleric from northern Perak state, said jerseys with devils, crosses or skulls promoted the “wrong value” for Muslims but that doesn’t mean he wanted them banned.
“We just advise people not to wear this,” he told The Associated Press on Friday. “Satan is for us our enemy … It’s the wrong value. Satan is always bad.”
His clarification follows domestic and international news reports which claimed that Manchester United jerseys and uniforms of other international teams and clubs had been banned for Muslims in Malaysia.
“We just advise people not to wear this,” he told The Associated Press on Friday. “Satan is for us our enemy … It’s the wrong value. Satan is always bad.”
His clarification follows domestic and international news reports which claimed that Manchester United jerseys and uniforms of other international teams and clubs had been banned for Muslims in Malaysia.
That's ridiculous.
Quote
Malaysian clerics said Wednesday that Muslims must not wear the iconic red jersey because devils should be shunned, not celebrated, and urged those who had worn the garment to "repent immediately".
There are people existing in this world, who are creating problems where no problems do exist.
#20
Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:17 PM
Stocky, on 23 July 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:
Well as a Villa fan I tend to concur with the good Mullah, Man Ure are indeed the work of the Devil and Alex Ferguson is Satan's spawn.
As a Bluenose, I tend to think that the Villans are the work of the Devil and Martin O'Neill is Satan's spawn...
(edit: you didn't really think you were going to get away with that did you?
)
