I'm tired of living in Thailand

I know it is the best country to live in, according to some, but I'm just tired of living here.

I pay hundreds of thousand of Baht in taxes every year but I have no right.
Just the right to spend more.

And it is still a third world country, i.e. nothing works basically.

Well, I'm just tired.

I guess your PR application got shelved then?

The fact I can't even get my wife and daughter to the VFS office for their visa applications has seriously p###ed me off, I have to admit. Where we live out in the fields of the far north, you'd never know there was trouble, as long as you don't turn on the TV. We also have few visitors to the house, so no grapevine news to speak of... so, it will be where I grow old and grey in peace and harmony with the mosquitoes, snakes and frogs, touch wood... Infrastructure not required really...

In the meantime however, where we'll be living is anyone's guess right now. There are far better places to raise a family. With the collapse of Bangkok into bombings, blood on the BTS, Thailand just became very, very unattractive. I guess if you don't need to visit Bangkok, or conduct any official business, you can just sup on your Singha and enjoy/endure the spectacle of Thailand destroying itself... But I can't even get my family out of the country until the VFS and IOM offices re-open fully... and lets face it, the troubles are now 'normal service' (See: Thailand political unrest apathy)

But this thread isn't about the current crisis...

I think this thread would make an interesting list of which comparable nearby countries offer significant benefits to foreigners that pay taxes, commit to the country etc etc... and like you say, have a functioning government and infrastructure too...

There must surely be a lot of foreigners looking to give up on Thailand... and the Thais don't really care anyway (deliberately inflammatory comment)... The leaders that are squabbling now, may register the fact that business is going elsewhere, leaving them less money to monopolise for themselves... but most of us are of zero significance to Thais, we don't even register on their consciousness, why would we?...

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Arai nah? Do you own a business or something? I'm not being a smartarse .. I don't know you .. but how do you manage to pay hundreds of thousands of baht?

Anyway .. aside from that .. it's funny because I was thinking the exact same thing about 2 hours ago! I s### you not. After 3 years the novelety has worn off and I was thinking to pop over to Vietnam or somwhere for a fresh change/challenge. It's all too easy here now.

Edited by keekwai, 25 April 2010 - 09:55 PM.

At this point I have realized like Mandrake that the ruling power in Thailand doesn't care one iota about foreigners who live in Thailand; hell, they don't even care about their own people, so why the f### should they care about us? They only care about the foreigners who visit, spend and leave.

An Indian friend of mine who operates a totally legitimate gem business in Bangkok is constantly hassled by police and tax people on a monthly basis (it used to be a weekly basis before the political stuff started). He pays huge amounts in taxes and just wants to be left alone.

Thais are always shocked and surprised that foreigners married to Thais have no rights to anything in Thailand. Owning a motorbike in one's own name is even a monumental feat.

I have given up on trying to feel settled or secure here for myself. I just plan for my son's future, whether he decides to live here or somewhere else. Once he's eighteen, then it's up to him, but at least he will have a Thai passport, a Thai ID card, and hopefully a US passport.

I have been here a couple of years now and my observations are as follows.

People have a great life in Thailand until they take ownership of something. A business, a girlfriend, a wife, even a car. In fact the most stress I had here was selling a motorbike, the day at the DVLA was murder!
A generalization maybe, but most farangs who start complaining do so after having been with a Thai female for a while; extended family nonsense or hurried commitment are the usual groans. Either that or working with thais starts to stress them out. I think SOME guys do meet genuinely great women here, but trying to carve out a family life being a farang is anything but easy. If I met the right one I reckon I would think about a relocation of sorts (if we were planning a family). Most find it very difficult not to stray also, the sheer amount of beautiful single women and inflated ego (a few thousand baht in the pocket) brings out the primal in the most modest of men.

As much as I love it here I just can't commit long term, because the farang is always seen as a tourist and never a welcome resident, unlike my home country where people are generally welcome to call the place home. People talk about Thailand being a great place to retire, and sure enough many aging gents take up residence and find a suitable (or not) daughter...I mean girlfriend to be a carer. I don't see Thailand as a place to be old, it is a place to be when you are young. As a 31 year old I find Thailand fun and interesting. I get a fairly warm reception from most and I meet lots of interesting people on the journey. But I always feel like I am on holiday, even though I work from home everyday. And that is what makes it fun, that holiday vibe - always something new happening, a new adventure being planned or a friend coming to visit. If I had to put a suit on in this heat, see Thai inlaws and extended family on a regular and stay in the same place too long I think I would like others on this forum want to leave.

I have no commitments here, I can just leave, or just stay…that makes things far easier...I also feel like when thais think you have no serious long term plans here, they seem to enjoy you more, and that is certainly not for my money because I am not a rich man.

I see OAPs on the MRT everyday and they look so miserable...and Thais seem to just not notice them..They probably just think…”where is he off to, Nana or Cowboy the sad old sod…free NHS and he wants to grow old in this sh**hole…must be a pervert”.


Being a foreigner in thailand is one thing, being an old foreigner in thailand is another entirely. The stereotyping also does my nut in, because for the most part it is true. Things seem to be changing in BKK slightly, there are a fair few non-sociopath non-sex-pest types setting up digs here. But for the most part, as much as I tried to defend it throughout my first year..Thailand attracts mostly misogynistic bigots with serious social issues....all present company in this thread excluded (I hope). I really hoped to meet more great people than I have, perhaps I just haven't tried hard enough or don't get out enough....or maybe I am indeed a sociopath.

anyway ...my point is, getting 'too involved' in thailand seems to make people miserable..."it started out all right, but ended up all wrong" - Warren Zevon-Empty Hearted Town

lix, on 25 April 2010 - 10:45 PM, said:

My experience has been the opposite. I'm not saying you're wrong, just sounding my perspective, and that is that my in-laws are the warmest people I know, love me like a son/brother, appreciate me and what I bring to the family (not money, they have far more than me). I miss them real bad now that I'm UK side for a while. I can't wait to get back to them, and I sincerely miss my mother in law.

I got the girl hunting out of my system already. No cheating from this poster. I'd never risk losing my wife, or hurting her. She's the best girl in the world.

^ Does she read this forum? ... just joking mate ! ..

Mandrunk, on 25 April 2010 - 11:05 PM, said:

I am with you. I got the best wife in the world and she is also my best friend too and her family is great, but been here 7 years and it seems like the government does not give a sh_it and gets worse every year I have to bite my tongue every year to make my yearly visa where there used to be 2-3 people and very helpful and polite at that time now have 10 or more morons, so I go outside let my wife fill out the papers have her make another 20 copies of copies for them to shuffle some more paper and feel important then she gets me I sign them and thank God they still have one person from the original crew he sort out the mess then it goes to the desk to sign it used to be automatic now have to stare at it for 30 minutes and to top it off all this time I am the only farang there.Use to take 5 minute with a smile now an hour and what the f#### you doing here.

I said earlier I was thinking of going to Vietnam .. is it as bad there .. or does logic exist there?

Interesting thread and greetings from Pattaya,

just on vacation. I have a nice time, as usual, for about one month, but after that I really need to go back to Japan.


I never made a secret out of my opinion.

Thailand is for me my second country, nice for vacation, nice for retirement.

Many foreigners think like that, and Pattaya is quite full with tourists now, no demonstrations, nothing to see or hear about any political problems.

OK to own a condominium in Pattaya or in any other major Thai city and to bring in SOME money enough for your daily life and stay even for some months, enjoy the hot weather and the swimmingpool and maybe the girls etc... but otherwise?

It should be noticed, that neighbouring countries are not much better either. Compare Thailand with Bangladesh, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam or Philippines.

If you live as a Western foreigner in one of these SouthEast Asian countries you always should be aware, that suddenly you might be kicked out or find yourself otherwise in unexpected troubles. Be ready to move away anytime.

lix, on 25 April 2010 - 10:45 PM, said:

Correct. I agree. This is about what the Thai government thinks about Western foreigners... bring your own money with you and spend it somehow ...

The Thai government said a while ago something about the so-called 'quality tourist'...

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Well, misogynists are not born, they are made. Interesting - these misogynists are all living with a Thai girl after their arrival from Europe/UK/US etc. It seems they are not really women-haters, but rejecting the biased legal system of their own countries.

Not all male Western tourists however are misogynists - in my area around Pattaya there is a significant large Russian community, these people are always coming with their own Russian family members and friends and do not mix up with Thai women. Ask yourself why, there should be a reason for that.

yohan, on 26 April 2010 - 02:20 AM, said:

The Philippines made it very easy to apply for permanent residency under Arroyo it is almost like the Green card in the US. It is a one time deal and good for life also one can own land.I have a few friends that have that and are very satisfied.Thailand loves to shuffle papers and make another 20 copies of the hundred they already have, also the 90 days reminds me like the program in the US for an ex con reporting to the parole officer. No one checks it just to shuffle more stuff.Love Chiang Rai would not want to live anywhere else.

Mandrunk, on 25 April 2010 - 11:05 PM, said:

Its nice to hear your input. I am not living in Thailand yet, but it is my goal to live my last days there with my wife. Its taken me 50+ years to look for a change from my 'homeland' which I have become disheartened with. Yes, we are all looking for that small piece of escape in life, but I too get along very well with my in-laws and my wife and I help them out when they are in need and its never extravagant. The way I look at it, if it takes me another 50 years to become disheartened with Thailand, I will be lucky to have gotten another 50 years of life and I will be too old then to care... :-)

It might be time to re-evaluate some things. Then again, everyone should re-evaluate the things they do, or have been doing for any extended period of time which exceeds a year, or more.

I was in Phnom Penh recently and met a German who used to live in Thailand. He was a businessman [in Thailand] involved in the liquor trade [import] and married to a Thai. And during the time he was there - more than 10 years - he never felt welcome. The last few years were especially hard which prompted him to move to Phnom Penh. And so he did. He runs a bar simply called 'Cheap Charlie' off 136 Street. According to him, he feels 'more at home' there than he ever did in Thailand. He legally owns the business and there is an apparent lack of xenophobia there, compared to Thailand, according to him.

He told me that when he deals with local officials he is treated well and respected. This treatment was never accorded to him while he was in Thailand. However, having said this, I'm sure there are some in Thailand who may vehemently deny this. I'm just saying what he told me.

In the off chance you decide to venture to Cambodia to seek first-hand info, his name is Hans, and he may remember a Malaysian bearing Cuban cigars sometime in February this year.

Thailand is a beautiful country. The people are also good. But when you're there for an extended period you will hear this question: 'When you going back?' I've heard this myself with my extended holidays in Phuket in the 80s. It gives me the impression that they will tolerate you for a while but will begin to resent you anytime after two weeks.

You've been there a while. It's time to move.

Hope this helps.

hardy, on 26 April 2010 - 02:46 AM, said:

While it is correct, that permanent residency is easy in Philippines, it must be noticed that a foreigner CANNOT own LAND in Philippines, even if he is holding permanent residence status (except former Philippine national)

You can own ONLY condominium. A house on a land. But NOT the land. Usually 'land-ownership for foreigners' is a lease, 50+25 years.

Philippines has many other problems which should be considered - living in Thailand as a foreigner is still much more comfortable by my opinion.

yohan, on 26 April 2010 - 03:24 AM, said:

I think that rule has been changed thanks to Arroyo and, I believe, attempts to attract Donald Trump to do business in the PI. There is a limit, but I believe foreigners can own land now. This was big news months ago and there was some protesting in the streets and everything.

This is from a law firm site in PI:

Philippines Land Ownership and Acquisition

In general, only Filipino citizens and corporations or partnerships with least 60% of the shares are owned by Filipinos are entitled to own or acquire land in the Philippines. Foreigners or non-Philippine nationals may however purchase condominiums, buildings, and enter into a long term land lease.

K&C assists foreigners, non-Philippine nationals, Filipinos, OFW, Balikbayans and corporations purchasing and acquiring real property in the Philippines and can provide relevant information on Philippine laws and regulations regarding property purchase and acquisition, review general contracts, asset protection contracts, deeds of sale, taxes and handle entire estate planning. In addition, K&C can introduce you to local real estate brokers to assist you in finding the property you are looking for in the Philippines."

http://www.kittelson...perty-ownership

ninermike, on 26 April 2010 - 03:00 AM, said:

Cambodia is expensive, but not as bad as your homeland. You do not need a local partner to register a business here and visa is about $280 a year (FYI get a business visa upon entry as it is easier to renew). Phnom Penh probably has more western restaurants that are very good than Bangkok. Do not get me wrong, this place is not Nirvana. The people can get on your nerves, but they are not as ruthless as Thais.

ninermike, on 26 April 2010 - 03:00 AM, said:

I don't agree with this. I've had that question too .. but it's only because they assume you are a tourist. The concept of someone living in a country with lower wages than their native country is crazy .. as far as they are concerned. Hence .. they presume you WILL go back .. sooner or later.

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i hear ya blue, i feel the same thing.

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last year i pay 1.5mil in tax, you make money you pay tax simple as that keekwai.

teruchan, on 26 April 2010 - 05:09 AM, said:

Yes, the Arroyo Clan needs always money ....

http://farmlandgrab.org/5639

Maybe you refer to possible transactions like this one, but for sure, as an ordinary individual foreigner, who wants to buy a house AND a land in Philippines, you will not benefit out of such agreements (or better sell-outs).

The regulation is quite similar to Thailand, condominium only. Or China is about the same, condominium only.

Few countries offer the possibility to buy LAND + house as a foreigner. Malaysia has such a regulation if you retireThere, but the home/land is not a cheap one, you cannot buy just what you like. Only expensive land-plots are open to foreign ownership.

Also Japan offers land/house to buy as a foreigner, but only if you are a permanent Japanese resident without limitation (there is also permanent residence status with limitations) - Therefore I can buy land/house in Japan, but not any kind of land, for example I cannot buy a rice-field, or land which is subject to change the status from agriculture to industrial etc. - There are restrictions.

chingy_, on 26 April 2010 - 07:01 PM, said:

Errr .. I realise that. Thats why I asked if he owned a business.I'm just a salary man here.

yohan, on 26 April 2010 - 07:03 PM, said:

You maybe right,many Japanese and Korean retire there most in Cebu, just came back from the Phil. Saw on the local channel a Japanese I thought he bought like 500 acres , maybe a lease or business has 50 locals working and living there and it is like a pet farm has 2 of every species you can think of. He is very wealthy and is living out his dream loving animals and they also showed that he build a nice but small house for every worker that lives there.
As an American I live in Thailand 7 years now but can not make a friend there was 2 weeks in Phil. made a half a dozen.Then had many Phil. friend in the states and grew up with them. Any way given my 2 cents worth Thank you

chingy_, on 26 April 2010 - 07:01 PM, said:

Indeed, and we sure do not get anything in return.

Mandrunk, on 25 April 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

It is not an inflammatory comment, they indeed do not care.
But if the company I work for is any indication, the writing is on the wall.
I sure was right to put my son in the French school...

keekwai, on 25 April 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

i would very much suggest against vietnam, after more then 15 years in this country (vietnam) i am able to finally escape.

dont make the mistake of setting up here in any permenent fashion. it is a great place to visit but belive me the novelty of it all wears off in about 4 to 8 weeks and at the one year mark most expats go nuts and leave or go nuts and figure out a way to calm down, but it never really goes away. And in all honesty this place has truly gone to $#(t in the last 2 years, every thing is pretty well falling apart here and they are dumping on expats hard these days, it is beging to remind me of the early to mid 90s.

the most common thing i hear now from non financially stable expats is "if i could only make enough to get out of here"

sorry about the vietnam bashing, but it was a great place years ago, but much like thailand has done they try to ruin everything that they have going for themselves.

and as for your question, does logic exist in Vietnam?

In the movie platoon charlie sheen says

"hell is the impossibility of reason"

impossibility of reason ----- this pretty much sums up vietnam.

the mantra is (or mantras are)

-why tell the truth if you can think of a lie

-if anyone knows anything that is true they have power over you

-in every interaction someone is always getting screwed, if you cant figure out who it is, it is you

-trust no one, no matter how long you know them

remember this and you will have a chance

also if it is not nailed down or concreted into the ground it is fair game

and stealing from / conning a forigner is one of the things that gets you higher social status here, so you always have to be on the defensive

there is no sense of right and wrong or decency

^ So ... Vietnam is out then ..

OK .. I'll be a pioneer and head to Myanmar ..

My wife is Thai too and I've been there many times & I suggest you get the fcuk out of there if you can for real. I don't mind hanging out in Phuket, etc for vacation but Bangkok is a mess I wouldn't want to live there either. Vietnam as an alternative? Are you kidding me - how miserable are you? I live in Hong Kong for a while now. I really think it's the ultimate expat destination. Location, culture, food, women, etc everything most expat men would seek is at their best in Hong Kong. So if you can, make your way over here instead.

Nah .. my ex wife was Cantonese .. the Jews of the East .. and Cantonese food is as bland as bread. Maybe Englishmen would like it though ..

EDIT .. Was there anyone else i forgot to insult? .. just kidding guys ...

Edited by keekwai, 27 April 2010 - 01:29 AM.

keekwai, on 26 April 2010 - 01:37 AM, said:

Vietnam is probably worse in some ways, as someone said about Thailand the problems come when you own or want register anything, it'a an absolute nightmare. I can see why expats maybe getting fed up in Thailand but imo Vietnam not as easy to live as where you are now. Another thing, long term visas are getting more and more difficult too.

Theo, on 26 April 2010 - 11:21 PM, said:

I felt that too, like it's started going backwards not forward. When I first went 10 years ago it seemed to be going the right direction. I think some of your last 2 comments are a bit harsh though, I did meet some good honest Vietnamese folk over the years, they are not all out to con us.

supercub, on 27 April 2010 - 09:24 PM, said:

That's one thing I don't get. Are people exaggerating a bit? I bought a bike and registered it in Chanthaburi in my name no problems at all.(I have a WP though) Dropped the paperwork in .. picked up the sticker and green book the next day. Same with my bike riding license .. took a couple of hours waiting to do the road test .. but painless. ... and the people at both areas of the office bent over backwards to help. Maybe that's just Chanthaburi though ..

SO what do you guys think is a good alternative the Thailand then? ... none? .. just rough it out here? .. go home?

Edited by keekwai, 27 April 2010 - 09:35 PM.

As the saying goes "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence", I've spent 30 years working overseas and there are always times, no matter where you are, when life seems harder and prospects look better elsewhere. However, that's very often illusional.

Daily Telegraph: The grass is always greener ~ This expat amply demonstrates that it's possible to be miserable wherever you are. Enjoy...