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China Takes Aim at U.S. Naval Might


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#31 Captain Chaos

Posted 11 August 2012 - 04:45 PM

Artists impressions, conjecture ... :D

Never underestimate your enemies. But never overestimate them either...

#32 Stocky

Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:53 AM

Strewth, that looks like a lolloping tub, no pointy end, but it cuts through the seas like a box.

#33 hobbler

Posted 12 August 2012 - 07:35 AM

The article is a bunch of crap.  

1) There's no way a ship like that could survive in heavy seas.
2) The power projection comes from the entire carrier group.  A carrier itself is just the nucleus, important, but can't survive without the rest.
3) China still hasn't gotten the carrier they bought from the Russians up and running.
4) The website is filled with a ridiculous amount of delusion and OMG CHINA'S PENIS TASTES AWESOME!

#34 Jack Fancy

Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:25 AM

No need to read it...

#35 kamikaze

Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:09 AM

China just launched its first aircraft carrier, a refurbished soviet vessel from the 1980s. But, oops, no aircraft for it yet. :lol:

Posted Image

The US still leads in carriers by a big margin:
  • US: 11 in service, with 3 under construction
  • Russia: One, the Admiral Kuznetsov
  • UK: One, HMS Illustrious which only carries helicopters - two under construction
  • China: One, the Liaoning
  • France: One, the Charles de Gaulle
  • India: One, the Viraat, formerly known as HMS Hermes, but converting another, the Admiral Gorshkov, into the Vikramaditya. A third is under construction
  • Italy: Two, the Giuseppe Garibaldi and the Cavour
  • Spain: One, the Principe De Asturias
http://www.bbc.co.uk...-china-19710040

#36 Stocky

Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:37 AM

...but Thailand has one too!

#37 yohan

Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:38 AM

The ROC was never really active concerning navy.

Its military is usually attacking targets by land routes. All located around China.

The ROC was assisting North Korea in the Korean War, entered Tibet kicking out the Dalai Lama, it was fighting border wars with the USSR and was even fighting Vietnam entering its territory with 100000s of soldiers.

The ROC has however also sea-border related disputes with Japan and Philippines, and a fully functioning aircraft carrier with its protection ships is able to export war far away from China - doing the same what USA is doing - threatening Taiwan and enter Philippines or even Vietnam and taking away some islands because of its resources and fishing grounds.

Not so easy with Japan of course.

Edited by yohan, 25 September 2012 - 11:45 AM.


#38 britmaveric

Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:48 AM

^no aircraft :rofl2:

#39 yohan

Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

Japan has no aircraft carrier either, but Japanese Navy has about totally 150 ships. 50 ships are fairly large ships (about 150 to 200m long) and 20 Japanese-made submarines and about 45000 soldiers. Many of those ships can carry helicopters.

It is said, that technically those Japanese ships/helicopters - with full co-operation of the USA - are all in excellent condition.

There is also the Japanese Coast Guard, with about 500 smaller ships (a few of them longer than 50m but not over 100m long) and about 12000 personnel. Also some of these boats are carrying helicopters.

I have no idea, if the Japanese Navy/Coastguard is strong or weak, compared to those of China.

About Japanese Airforce, there are about 800 airplanes, about the half are fighters, built in Japan under US-licence, F2, F15, F4, and about 45000 servicemen.

Again I have no idea, if you could call this a strong or weak AirForce in this region.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Still not really an aircraft carrier, this one is now under construction, similar ships, same form but shorter, are already in full operation. The newest one will be 250m long, about 1000 servicemen on board.

Edited by yohan, 25 September 2012 - 01:48 PM.


#40 Jonnyboy

Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:39 PM

It seems that some writers can think of nothing other than running down China.To say that China invented nothing  and just makes 2nd class products is simply ludicrous. I am old enough to remember Japan and Germany having that reputation,and look where they are now.
Britmaveric, China did not have to copy anyone to get into space, and does not need anyone else to build or launch its rockets,and satellites. How many countries have launched manned satelittes? Certainly not the UK!  As for missiles, of course China has the technology and the ability to build sophisticated rocketry and get it to any place in the world, but is there any evidence of China having the inclination? No.Of course not.
Silly comments about China's military too.Starseeker, where do you get YOUR knowledge from? China not have ALL the military technology of the USA, but it is certainly not far behind, and is ahead of most others. China's present armed forces are nothing like they wer even 10 years ago, and they are continually evolving.Smaller,leaner, and capable.The task of the modern PLA is to defend China and Chinese interests, and not to make war on others. It is well-equipped, well-trained and well paid. Not only that, it is difficult to enter. Why? Because even the lowest level recruits are expected to be highly educated and extremely fit, and they are! China's airforce and navy are part of the PLA, not seperate from it. Have you bothered to even look at them lately? Have you checked the performance of its latest advanced supersonic multi role combat aircraft? They are not hidden. The public know all about them. China has its air force display teams too, and they are damn good. I can say that with some knowledge, firstly because of my own flying experience,and secondly because I have seen them,
Yesterday , China's first aircraft carrier went into service. It has been described in a derogatory way by China bashers in the US press as an old rebuilt Soviet carrier, but that is far from the truth. When Russia changed its mond about its future crrier force, it cancelled one that was already under construction. The hull was sold to China, which designed and built the rest itself. so of course it is a new ship. There is also comment about it not yet having a complement of aircraft. That is true, but China has plenty of helicopters to put on it.If we are lucky, perhaps China will send it to join its Indian Ocean antipiracy ships.Oh! You didn't know that the international naval task force included Chinese ships?
As for the US making war on China, don't be ridiculous! what possible reason could it give to the American public, or to the world, or to the thousands of Americans in China? On the other hand, if China wants to harm the USA, all it has to do is to start dumping its US$ holdings on the world market, and the greennback value will fall to peanuts.
For thse who think all Chinese goods are rubbish, is your computer rubbish, because I bet it was made in China,along with your mobile/cellphone, your TV, dvdplayer, camera,bits of your car,your printer scanner, and a whole pile of other stuff in your house. so if you can do without those,and prepared to walk around naked, you have no need to buy anything Chinese, do you?

#41 britmaveric

Posted 26 September 2012 - 05:14 PM

^don't be silly - China is rubbish on making its own products not some other countries goods where they enforce strict standards.

As for rockets/space/technology - all pretty much gained from espionage. ;)  Chinese are pretty good at reverse engineering which certainly helps.

Yanks have Chinese by the bollox just as much - they could stop paying them, and seize all of their assets in US. :doh:

#42 chingy_

Posted 27 September 2012 - 03:32 AM

ask cheny, Sarah Palin or Mitt Romney to start a war with china and all debt erased.

#43 yohan

Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:15 AM

View Postbritmaveric, on 26 September 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

^don't be silly - China is rubbish on making its own products not some other countries goods where they enforce strict standards.

Without doubt, wide areas of China are deeply in poverty. The difference between the rich and the poor is horrible.

It's a big difference between marketing its own products or merely offering industrial land and people for cheap labour to assembly products owned by foreign companies. To argue these are 'Chinese products' is wrong, China is not the owner of these products. - They are products 'made in China'.

Quote

Jonnyboy:
if China wants to harm the USA, all it has to do is to start dumping its US$ holdings on the world market...

They can do that, but in return it is only fair to move out all these investments from China, and empty factories will send 100000s of Chinese workers jobless into the streets.

An other important fact is the currency exchange. the Chinese Yuan facing a free market would rise so high, that nobody needs products from China anymore, as they would be remarkable expensive.

I like to ask you, if you can give me any idea, why Japanese tourists and businessmen are still travelling VISAFREE to China?

Well, China knows it MUST earn money, otherwise it will face an economic disaster again, I remember the 'big step forward' by a certain Mr. Mao... the result was... shall we talk more about that?








#44 กำนัน

Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostJonnyboy, on 26 September 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

China's present armed forces are nothing like they wer even 10 years ago, and they are continually evolving.Smaller,leaner, and capable.The task of the modern PLA is to defend China and Chinese interests, and not to make war on others. It is well-equipped, well-trained and well paid...

They've also got the awesomist™ most awesome entrenching tools. See: http://www.orientexp...-made-in-china/

View Postbritmaveric, on 26 September 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

As for rockets/space/technology - all pretty much gained from espionage. ;)  Chinese are pretty good at reverse engineering which certainly helps.

The Chinese invented rockets you plonker.

#45 britmaveric

Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:35 AM

^fireworks don't count muppet!!! :P

#46 กำนัน

Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:19 PM

Why on earth not? Modern war munitions (also invented by the Chinese, long before the USA even existed) are just particularly deadly types of firework... and as for espionage, I can view various modern rocket engine designs on Wikipedia. Try Google, or even Bing.

#47 britmaveric

Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:55 PM

Modern rockets were created by Z-Germans.  :D

#48 yohan

Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:35 PM

View Postกำนัน, on 27 September 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

The Chinese invented rockets ...

Whatever the Chinese invented 100s of years ago is not relevant - the question is what was invented by  Communist China out of itself - and so far this is not very much.

The Communist economic program was causing more Chinese people to die of hunger than all Chinese WWII victims together. (Great Leap Forward, 1958 - 1961) and the Cultural Revolution 1966-1976 was a disaster with millions of people persecuted and property confiscated, cultural sites destroyed etc.

Chinese inventions in history were very incomplete. Chinese created for example the production of paper, but did not know how to make use out of it - the printing technology at that time was done by Koreans.

The developing of Communist China was really starting after the Chinese-Japanese peace agreement in 1978 with reformer Deng XiaoPing. It opened the relationship between the USA and China and Japan was obliged in return of the peace treaty to start with huge investments on the mainland.

#49 กำนัน

Posted 28 September 2012 - 03:59 AM

View Postbritmaveric, on 27 September 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Modern rockets were created by Z-Germans.  :D

Precisely, and the technology became the spoils of war and was assimilated into the American development of rocket propulsion... The point is, you can't point the finger at the Chinese and accuse them or borrowing or stealing technologies when everyone else is doing it... or are you suggesting they're the only country that engages in industrial or political espionage?...

#50 britmaveric

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:04 AM

^these days they are a prime example and prob the most noteworthy.

#51 Bobo

Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:06 PM

I think this Tread should be in the Comedy Section

#52 yohan

Posted 17 October 2012 - 04:46 AM

Why should it be in the comedy section?

The relationship between China and Japan is real. Not all within this large relationship is good operating however. Politically there will be always discussions between China and Japan.

This does not mean that other co-operation/projects do not work out successfully.



#53 Jack Fancy

Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:21 AM

View PostJonnyboy, on 26 September 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

It seems that some writers can think of nothing other than running down China.

Don't worry, Jonnyboy, Britmaveric is just an old crusty with a hard-on for Chinese products knock-offs and gets them confused with actual Chinese craftsmanship. He'll tell me I'm wrong and ROTFL but not to worry, some of us know the difference.

#54 britmaveric

Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:40 AM

Old crusty? Hardly think 41 can be described in such manner!!!

#55 Jack Fancy

Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:52 AM

I wrote it affectionately!

#56 Starseeker

Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:12 AM

Sorry, to nitpick, but it's PROC, not ROC.  :P  I am not sure any side will be happy with that confusion.

Edited by Starseeker, 03 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.



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