Considering a job position in Vientiane... What should I expect?
Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:01 AM
I was born in Laos, but left at a very young age, but have gone back on a few occasions; obviously I am western educated; speak fluent English and Lao, and have 7 years experience working in a major bank doing fraud prevention and risk management. I believe I am an ideal candidate for them...hopefully they feel the same way.
My question is, this position in the U.S. pays about 100k-140k a year; while I don't expect to make this much in Laos, I was hoping for it to be at least 60% of this salary. What should I expect in terms of compensation?
Any help will be much appreciated!
Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:01 AM
... obviously I am western educated; speak fluent English and Lao
It's sure refreshing to see a poster that can make correct use of the demonym, the language and the country versions of Laos/Lao/Laotian
Are you being head hunted?... and they are an international expanding into Laos?... Why are you only hoping for 60 percent? I know for a fact that there are executive recruiters out there that will bin your application BECAUSE you're offering to work at local rates.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:03 AM
Two reasons: one, to start any negotiation (which will only go downwards), and two, because if you do your Laotian posting and then decide to go back to North America, recruiters will look at your previous salary as a rule of thumb to assess the the level you were working at. If you go fully local on what will be, to international eyes, an extremely low salary, you might find it difficult to then clamber back on to the international job scene later on. This is, in principle, quite wrong, but it just seems to be the way it is.
Anyway, I think you can justify an international payscale as you will be bringing international experience and skill sets, plus your dual language skills and I guess some cultural insight too ... as you say, you should be a perfect candidate for the bank, but they have to pay a premium to get you. If they want to pay local, let them hire a local!
Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:25 AM
I take it you hold a canadian passport.
Was the position offered as an expat position. If so you should expect to paid as such.
How much tax would you pay on a salary of $100 - $140,000 a year in USA.
Expat tax rate in Lao at present is 10%. My friends there working in the mining industry pay no more than this.
I agree with CC in that you start off any negotiations higher than you would really consider and then settle on a mutually acceptable but lower rate.
Take into consideration whether there are other incentives like housing allowance etc.
A renewable contract position.
Length of each contract period.
Good luck and keep us informed as to how you get on.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:57 AM
Everyone is right about demanding a pay of $100-140k now that I think about it! I actually have some family there so probably the move wouldn't be too bad. Yes, I do have a Canadian passport and I wouldn't mind trying a move to Laos...I really hope the competition isn't too tough!
Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:51 AM
Posted 03 July 2012 - 11:02 AM
No harm sending your resume to them and indeed, if an international bank, you should not be shy about asking an expat salary.
If you go there as a local, always a local you will be.
But not very sure whether your goal is to build a career or just go back to Laos.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:15 PM
For me, the goal is to get international and managerial experience that I would not be able to get here; it wouldn't be a permanent move, perhaps just a few years. Hopefully translate that experience into an MBA, and continue moving up. The description of the job posting suggests that I would have the same responsibilities of a Fraud Prevention & Risk Control Manager there as I would here in North American; It doesn't say anywhere that the position is only for a Lao national, but I am wondering now if this position and the general e mail response I got back means that they are only targetting locals...
Edited by james.chang112, 03 July 2012 - 05:20 PM.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:11 PM
Also the brevity of the response basically asking if you can speak and add.
However, keep on with the application and see where it leads.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:00 AM
If they at least contacted me, I am confident I can explain to them why I would benefit them. At the same time...Laos is really beautiful...I would love the opportunity to live there...if only temporary.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:00 AM
I am sure we have been through this before. The official name is The Lao PDR. The country is called Lao by most of the Lao people who live here. The French added the "s". The adjective is also "Lao", though some westerners use "Laotian". The language is also Lao. Some Lao who live in Lao and who have been French educated use the name "Laos".
OP "I suppose the question for them is, do we want to pay 100k+ for a qualified expat or do we hire a local?"
You will almost certainly not earn this salary. If they are targeting Lao, this is a huge salary. It is also a large salary by western standards. A mining engineer working for Phu Bia or MMG would earn about 120+ K. That is for on site work.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:32 AM
I agree that this is a large salary by Lao standards, but not by western standards. You compare it to a mining engineer, and say that is for on-site work. I agree that mining can be dangerous...but look at it this way. The Fraud Controller for the financial institution that I work for now is responsible for setting controls for fraud prevention. There is literally billions of dollars of attempted fraud at my company per year. Last year we had $300 million in fraud...it sounds like a lot, but we're actually the best in the country at fraud prevention. I am quite certain my company's fraud controller earns at least $140k a year, I am also quite certain he deserves it.
What I believe would hold me back from receiving an offer like this is..."How much potential fraud could this bank I am applying to, possibly be exposing themselves to in Laos?" I can't imagine that the exposure is more than $25-50 million per year. Is that worth me earning 100k+? The previous company I mentioned that I also applied for, where I was grilled by VPs, was a telecommunications company; they offered 75k for an entire sector that had $30 million in losses last year...an entire sector...let alone a company. They were willing to offer a decent salary for a position that doesn't have as much responsibilities as this position.
I suppose it depends on how much fraud exposure they've had previously, and how much they anticipate in the next few years. According to my father, my aunt is apparently an upper manager at a mining company is Laos...she earns 20k...of course she is a local. I do appreciate your perspective Vientiane Boy, thank you!
Edited by james.chang112, 04 July 2012 - 06:38 AM.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 06:30 PM
Yes we have... and on this forum we're writing English, not French or Lao (something of, from, or related to Laos (country))... The English lexicon is overflowing with loan words that have become standard English. Consult any English dictionary, or any Cartographer and they'll tell you it's 'Laos' (short name), Lao PDR being the official long name. If you want to dispense with standardisation, we mite az wel st@rt spkng SMS spk and pretend its OK.
I would no more expect the English to drop the 's' as I would the French to write 'English' instead of 'Anglais', or the Germans to stop writing 'Englisch'.
Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:20 AM
James, I am not sure how much fraud prevention would be necessary in Lao. Corruption prevention? Yes!
Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:51 AM
Pronunciation is one thing. Written English is another...
Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:17 AM
This is correct. I do not know about any reliable source, like a major English dictionary or atlas which considers the word LAOS (used for the country) to be wrong.
Not only in French and English, but also in German language the country is called LAOS, both spoken and written.
The German DUDEN is the guideline how to write correct German since over 130 years.
Demokratische Volksrepublik Laos (= Lao DPR)
Even the official Lao Tourist Office in Japan calls itself in English:
Laos Tourism Office
in Japanese too, it's ラオス Pronunciation is RAOSU
Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:42 AM
Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:36 AM
Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:26 AM
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